"The problem here is a totalitarian uniformity, a cult-like mentality such that even allies are enemies if they fail to follow the Exact Party Line. " - Phyllis Chesler

Monday, November 3, 2008

(Undecided Voters) Don't Vote Obama - Key Issues Why -He's NOT READY NOW!



Anonymous said...

Hello Lauren. I am a Obama supporter. Is your blog open to comments and honest debate? Asking before I join in. :-)

Da Old Man said...

@ Pat: I hope an Obama supporter could possibly say something as to why Obama would make a good President. The only thing I've ever read that's honest from that camp is that Obama is not Bush or McCain.
In fact, I reference the Howard Stern "Man on the street" interviews from a few weeks ago to indicate that the average Obama supporter knows as much about him as I know of nuclear thermodynamics.

tiffany1377 said...

Pat - I would also be interested in honest discussion without just slamming each other.

Here's something I received today that I think makes an interesting point.

Obama & Joe the Plumber

Barack Obama discovers a leak under his sink, so he
calls Joe the Plumber to come and fix it.
Joe drives to Obama's house, which is located
in a very nice neighborhood and where it's clear that
all the residents make more than $250,000 per year.

Joe arrives and takes his tools into the house.

Joe is led to the room that contains the leaky pipe
under a sink. Joe assesses the problem and tells Obama, who
is standing near the door, that it's an easy repair that
will take less than 10 minutes.

Obama asks Joe how much it will cost.

Joe immediately says, '$9,500.'

'$9,500?' Obama asks, stunned. 'But you
said it's an easy repair!'

'Yes, but what I do is charge a lot more to my
clients who make more than $250,000 per year so I can fix
the plumbing of everybody who makes less than that for
free,' explains Joe. 'It's always been my
philosophy. As a matter of fact, I lobbied government to
pass this philosophy as law, and it did pass earlier this
year, so now all plumbers have to do business this way.
It's known as 'Joe's Fair Plumbing Act of
2008.' Surprised you haven't heard of it,

In spite of that, Obama tells Joe there's no
way he's paying that much for a small plumbing repair,
so Joe leaves.

Obama spends the next hour flipping through the
phone book looking for another plumber, but he finds that
all other plumbing businesses listed have gone out of
business. Not wanting to pay Joe's price, Obama does

The leak under Obama's sink goes unrepaired for
the next several days.

A week later the leak is so bad that Obama has had
to put a bucket under the sink. The bucket fills up quickly
and has to be emptied every hour, and there's a risk
that the room will flood, so Obama calls Joe and pleads with
him to return.

Joe goes back to Obama's house, looks at the
leaky pipe, and says 'Let's see – this will cost
you about $21,000.'

'A few days ago you told me it would cost
$9,500!' Obama quickly fires back.

Joe explains the reason for the dramatic increase.
'Well, because of the 'Joe's Fair Plumbing
Act,' a lot of rich people are learning how to fix their
own plumbing, so there are fewer of you paying for all the
free plumbing I'm doing for the people who make less
than $250,000. As a result, the rate I have to charge my
wealthy paying customers rises every day. Not only that,
but for some reason the demand for plumbing work from the
group of people who get it for free has skyrocketed, and
there's a long waiting list of those who need repairs.
This has put a lot of my fellow plumbers out of business,
and they're not being replaced – nobody is going into
the plumbing business because they know they won't make
any money. I'm hurting now too – all thanks to greedy
rich people like you who won't pay their fair

Obama tries to straighten out the plumber: 'Of
course you're hurting, Joe! Don't you get it? If all
the rich people learn how to fix their own plumbing and you
refuse to charge the poorer people for your services,
you'll be broke, and then what will you do?'Joe
immediately replies, 'Run for president,

Anonymous said...

@ da old man: I've seen the "Man on the street" piece so I know what you are speaking of. Like Obama, I believe we can get further by establishing a baseline of where we agree, then debate from there. Either side can take a single interview and spin it to make it seem as if it's indicative to the entirety of the other side. I can reference the man in Johnstown, PA carrying the monkey with the Obama sticker or the biker with the shirt saying "N-word, it's called a White House" and try to extrapolate that all McCain supporters are racist, which they are not.

So let me state a few (of the many) reasons why I support Obama and we can take it from there.

1) I believe government should be representative of the people if serves. History has shown that it's a very bad idea to be involved in a war that a majority of it's citizens don't support. (We support the troops, not the war.) The Republican response to this seems to be: "So....". Cheney even said that. Basically, we don't care what you think, we are going to do what we want.

2) I agreed with McCain's prior stance about tax cuts, until he reversed himself to get points with the Republican base. "I don’t think the governor’s tax cut is too big—it’s just misplaced. Sixty percent of the benefits from his tax cuts go to the wealthiest 10% of Americans—and that’s not the kind of tax relief that Americans need." That's a quote.

3) Call me a dreamer, but I'd like to see the country united. No more us versus them or "real America" versus "fake America" as per Sarah Palin.

I'll stop at those three for now.

Anonymous said...

@ tiffany: Tiffany, not sure I get the point. I think you're story is saying that Obama is forcing Joe to provide free plumbing for those making less than $250,000 a year and forcing those who make more to pay extravagant prices.

Firstly, then the author is also against the current tax system because it is progressive. The well-to-do pay more.

Secondly, someone would have to show me where Obama is arguing for *free* services. The argument is that the majority of the tax cuts should go to the middle class.

If the story is suppose to be analogous to his tax cut plan, Obama says that he wants to provide a tax cut to working Americans. They would still pay taxes, Obama is not eliminating them.

Third, if the middle class have more money, then the plumber can expect more business because they can afford to hire him. If they don't have money, then they will have to use a bucket or learn how to fix it themselves.

Look at Bennigans and Steak and Ale. These chains went out of business because consumers had less money to spend. Put more money into Joe Average's pocket, a lot of it will be spent, benefiting those who provide services. Obama says give the middle class more money, by taxing them less, not by handouts. The economy would grow from the bottom up. More of the money would go up, than money coming down from the wealthy should they receive the majority of the tax cuts.


Da Old Man said...

pat: I've found most Obama supporters are lacking basics in Ameriucan Government.
Bush is being blamed for all the woes of the economic collapse, when the Democrats have been in control of Congress for the last 2 years. Congress makes the laws, the Presidident only executes them.
The mortgage crisis? Dem. Barney Frank and his cohorts just assured us in the last couple years that everything was fine. OOOOPPPS.
BTW, where did all these bad loans come from? Oh, that's right, under fairness principles, people who were not credit worthy got loans. The banks were forced to do this under Carter (Dem)
And why do the wealthy receive the majority of the tax breaks? When 10% of the people pay 70% of the taxes, they will get the breaks. Or do you propose giving tax breaks to the roughly 30-40% who pay no taxes? I'd love to get free bread, but it doesn't taste right if it is forcibly taken away from another who baked it.

tiffany1377 said...

Hmm. Where to start? First of all, I think this is a good discussion. I like it when we can respectfully discuss issues without getting all personal. Without writing a book, this is the basis of my belief...
Dumping money into the middle and lower class is not the way to stimulate the economy...at least not long term. Sure it creates a temporary boast. It's like if you broke your leg and decided that instead of fixing the break(setting it and casting it), you'll just take pain medication to block the pain. Sure, you can block the pain, but it never fixes the problem. Little by little you need more pain meds and since you are blocking the pain you are using the broken leg and making it worse.
We need to fix the break. The left and the right disagree on how to do that. The left wants to work from the bottom up and the right from the top down. Yeah, laugh but trickle down economics does work. Handing out money to the lower and middle class creates temporary spending, but when that money is gone...then what? We need to stop penalizing the wealthy, corporate America and small businesses. We need to create jobs so that the lower and middle class will be able to find good jobs that will allow them to improve their financial status PERMANENTLY.

Lastly...why are we losing so many jobs? Simple. America is the MOST UNFRIENDY place to have a business. Our capital gains and corporate taxes are higher than anywhere else. We have so many regulations that it is most difficult to meet them all and still maintain profits(which are then taxed an outrageous amount). Why don't we make America more business friendly and make some of our money stay here. Tax the heck out of foreign companies that want to ship their cheap goods here. Make it smarter, cheaper and better to shop American. We are selling out.
I could go on forever, but I'll spare you all :)